It seems clear Kasabian never participated in any of it, other than being present. Her involvement is obviously much less than Atkins or Krenwinkel. If a deal had to be made, she was easily the lesser evil. For Cielo, it could easily have been argued she had no idea what was going to happen, especially since she was brand new to the Family. The second night, she obviously had to see what was coming.

Bugliosi is fond of saying she saved Salidan Nader's life by leading the crew to the wrong apartment. Perhaps it was on purpose and maybe she just didn't remember which apartment was which. Either way, she endangered the life of the occupent of the apartment she chose.

If you pick the people involved in Hinman, Tate and LaBianca, it would seem Davis carries the least guilt (if you just look at those three cases and ignore Shea). Next up would be Brunner or Kasabian. Brunner's guilt is arguably worse since Hinman was a multi-day event and she made no effort to stop things. But for the Tate-LaBianca trial, Davis and Brunner don't even come into play. It's pretty clear Kasabian was the least involved. And that seems to be the pick for making a deal, if one has to be made.

Look into the accessory to murder laws of this country. There are hundreds of people on death row and life in prison where were convicted of accessory to murder. Who where simply there (at a crime scene) at the wrong time with the wrong people and now spread the rest of their days behind bars.

Kasabian was the one supposedly with a conscience, a license and means to transportation and supposedly the ‘straight’ one of the bunch those. Buglisosi’s book and later move Helter Skelter depict that Charlie leaned into the window of Kasabian’s car the first night and gave them the order “Make it Witchy”. Manson himself joined them the second night with Kasabian the one driving.

Tell me your forced to drive the murders car you know damn well what’s coming slaughter. Would you not as the driver do everything in your power to prevent it? Hit another car accident scene, fake engine trouble or out of gas, even run off the road into a ditch. Anything to disrupt their devilish plans for the night,.

Did Miss Kassbian do anything of the sort? No in fact Buglisosi’s book tells us that Kasabian was the one that decided where and how to ditch the blood soaked clothing they were wearing, the longhorn revolver, the wallet and that her and Charlie had sex before the second nights slaughter.

Yes Miss Kassabian just stood there as look out the first and second nights. But only 15-20 feet away people are screaming at the top of their lungs for their lives (in the case of Tate Scene, witnesses recount echoes of screams threw out the canyon from 12a - 3a) Add to this her co-hoorts coming up to her in the middle of their devilish business drenched (an I do mean drenched in blood) And what does Kassabian do does she attempt to tell anyone, stop anything the second night? No she has sex with Charlie and gets in to go about a second night of murder oh along the way spearing the life of her former boyfriend.

Susan Atkins and the rest were caught up in the frenzy of the moment, insane on top of it.

Miss Kassabian though was fully in her facilities, she ditched the evidence, she drove over 30 miles, she attempted save her former lover, she stashed the wallet and who else knows. Yet, she did not have the facilities nor the conscience to do everything in her power to stop slaughter???

Nightshade

Webmaster wrote:

It seems clear Kasabian never participated in any of it, other than being present. Her involvement is obviously much less than Atkins or Krenwinkel. If a deal had to be made, she was easily the lesser evil. For Cielo, it could easily have been argued she had no idea what was going to happen, especially since she was brand new to the Family. The second night, she obviously had to see what was coming. Bugliosi is fond of saying she saved Salidan Nader's life by leading the crew to the wrong apartment. Perhaps it was on purpose and maybe she just didn't remember which apartment was which. Either way, she endangered the life of the occupent of the apartment she chose. If you pick the people involved in Hinman, Tate and LaBianca, it would seem Davis carries the least guilt (if you just look at those three cases and ignore Shea). Next up would be Brunner or Kasabian. Brunner's guilt is arguably worse since Hinman was a multi-day event and she made no effort to stop things. But for the Tate-LaBianca trial, Davis and Brunner don't even come into play. It's pretty clear Kasabian was the least involved. And that seems to be the pick for making a deal, if one has to be made.

Sharon Tate’s body (as some have eluded to) was indeed moved from where she was original killed to where the crime scene photograph was taken.

Exhibit A [I will not post It here for sake of younger readers] Sharon Tate’s uncensored autopsy photographs. Rig had set in her arm above her head while the other clutches her mid chest where she had been stabbed.

If you are to believe the accounts, then both her and Jay were standing in front of the fire place with ropes around their neck (over the rafter and held by Tex) when they were attacked and given the death blows. You’d expect blood to follow gravity and run down not up in the case of Sharon Tate’s face which is caked and soaked in blood on top of her arm above her head and the other clutching her chest?

Sharon Tate did not die standing upright nor did she die laying down on the side (as the staged crime scene photo shows) in addition to this there were remarks in the Crime Scene investigators reports (reprints of them on Marks site) that the it was clear by the blood smears on Tate that she had been moved!

I have it on good authority and source that was involved in the investigations. A source which will not come forward out of fear. He tells me too that manor of which Sharon Tate’s body was found. “..it was an old New York underworld mob hit calling card back in the days of 1940s and 50s… Those boys in L.A didn’t have a clue what they were seeing they thought about getting her down out of respect.”

That this ladies and gentlemen was the actual “Witchy” Sign Manson ordered that night by Charles Manson.



Nightshade

Tex testified that no one brought rope to the house. No one tied a rope around them. No one put a rope around the rafters.

http://www.charliemanson.com/documents/testimony-watson-1.htm

He admits to the killings so why would he lie about the rope part?

Tex Watson's own words from his trial:

Quote:

A Then Katie came running over and grabbed me by the arm and said something like, "There's one over here," or something. I don't know what she said but she said, "come over here," and we ran over and there was just a woman lying there that had blood all over her and stabbed her. Q Did these people, or these people that you stabbed, or the objects that you stabbed, have any form? A They had form but I really didn't see any faces, you know, or expressions or -- they were just blobs of, you know -- Q Did you have a rope with you that evening? A No, I did not. Q Did you carry a rope up the hill or into the house? A No, I did not. Q Did you tie any people up in that house? A No, I did not. Q Did you throw a rope over a rafter or anything of that nature? A No, I did not. Q I think you told us now you shot and stabbed somebody in the house; is that correct? A That is correct. Q And then you stabbed some people outside of the house; is that correct? A That is correct. Q Do you remember where the couch was in the house? A The couch was kind of in the middle of the room longways, up and down, up and down the room. Q Where were the two people that you stabbed in the house in relation to the couch?

If Watson's words were enough to convict the rest (in short the court viewed him as truthful) then where did the rope come from???

Watson testifies that Charlie gave him a gun, a knife with no handle and that there were a two foot long red wire cutters in the car. (even under the effects of Speed, Belladona) he's able to make out some detail of that night and does not state they brought a rope with them.


Nightshade

I have no clue where the rope came from. But Tex admits to the killing so denying the rope part makes no sense if he really brought it.

But they claim Sharon was moved. Charlie once admitted to returning to see what they did. I don't believe he did, but there was also arguing and gunshots heard at 3 or 4 A.M.

It's all rather strange.

The last wittness in the area reported arguement and gunshot at 4:15am loud enough to set his dogs barking in response.

The corner took reading of the liver temp (a good way to determine time of death) at 12 hours before discovery of the bodies which was around the time the maid reported for duty at 8-9am. That would put time of murders not a around 12am but as far back as 9pm.

Then their was grounds keeper and dogs staying in the guest house.. According to Bug's book he was hidding afraid to come out of hidding for the killers were supposedly testing his door handles and he reported no screams no shouts???


Yes alot of inconsistencies with the story.


Nightshade

Casey Chaos wrote:

I have no clue where the rope came from. But Tex admits to the killing so denying the rope part makes no sense if he really brought it. But they claim Sharon was moved. Charlie once admitted to returning to see what they did. I don't believe he did, but there was also arguing and gunshots heard at 3 or 4 A.M. It's all rather strange.

I don't see Susan or Tex as ever getting out due to their multiple involvements in murders. Susan was susposedly agreed to have sex with a man who was going to commit suicide anyway so they arranged for him to shoot himself during simultaneuos climax with Susan who then drank his blood. I've always been suspicious that this wasn't a suicide.(source: the movie Manson 1973).

Tex and Susan are mass murderers. That is a different breed of killer. Susan still fibs at her parole hearings.

BTW hello everyone.My first post.